Earlier this year, I stayed at the new lodge at
Valle
Chacabuco, the ambitious Chilean conservation project of environmental
philanthropists
Doug
Tompkins and
Kristine
McDivitt Tompkins. In the course of my brief stay, I had the opportunity
for an extended conversation with Kris (pictured above, center, at the lodge) over the proposed
Parque
Nacional Patagonia, including several topics related to the park and
their other projects.
Because the conversation was so lengthy, I’m breaking it up
into two parts; part two will appear in the near future. It covers their
projects in both
Chile
and
Argentina,
under the auspices of the non-profit NGO
Conservación Patagónica
(CP).
WBB: I’ve met Doug before, and I’ve met you extremely briefly.
Doug is in the press a lot more than you are.
KMT: A lot more.
WBB: I don’t know much about you personally – can you give me
a nutshell biography?
KMT: I was born in California…fourth generation ranching
family. I went to college, graduated and started working with
Yvon Chouinard, who had
climbing equipment for a couple years and then in 1973 we started
Patagonia company.
I started running that business a couple years later and retired in 1993 to
move to southern Chile with Doug to start working in conservation.
WBB: Do you spend all your time here in South America? I
understand you spend the summer in
Pumalín
and the winter in
Iberá
(Argentina).
KMT: Yes. I mean, we’re residents of the United States, we
go between Chile, the United States and Argentina, but the great majority of
our time is here. Our time is spent six months in Chile and six months in
Argentina, being based out of those two places – we move around a lot.
WBB: With regard to Valle Chacabuco (pictured above), when did you acquire the
place? Did you do so with the idea of creating a park?
KMT: In 2004. When we started coming through here in 1993,
we looked at it as the kind of place you would like to turn into a park. We
talked to the owner about it and he wasn’t necessarily interested, so we just
went on and did our things and then, several years later, we heard that it
might be up for sale, and that’s how it got started.
WBB: These were the Belgians? How long did it take to arrange
the purchase? Were there any other bidders?
KMT: Yes, it was Francisco De Smets. To answer the first
part of your question, it took about a year and four months from the time he
said he was considering selling to the time that we actually took over. A lot
of that was spent negotiating the price that we were prepared to pay versus
what he felt was acceptable. Once a deal was struck, it got out into the press
that and there was a group, non-government related, that was opposed to the
deal. They put up a competing bid and that took about four months of very
public back-and-forth about who would end up with Valle Chacabuco. Finally, at
the very last hour, we were able to make a bid and close in a way that the
owner thought was appropriate. It was brutal.
WBB: Who was the competitor? Was he planning to continue it
as a wool estancia?
KMT:
Ricardo Ariztía.
Mr Chicken, though he has many other holdings besides chickens. He and about
five other guys, for anything but conservation.
WBB: What’s the area of the estancia?
KMT: We originally bought about 173,000 acres. Since then,
we’ve added three of four nearby inholdings to the park. We have one neighbor
who’s not interested in selling. He’s surrounded by us and a touch of
Reserva
Nacional Jeinimeni. He has sheep and cattle.
WBB: How does this differ from Pumalín in setting it up, since
this is not going to be a private nature reserve? What's the difference between
the two projects? Will
Conaf take over?
KMT: Well, of course, the landscape is different. We hope Pumalín
will become a national park too. Both will fall under the new Ministry of the
Environment, and will be going to whatever new national park system that they
are going to create.
WBB: Is there a timeline?
KMT: The timeline was to have Valle Chacabuco donated by
2017. That was always the timeline, but these things are very opportunistic, often
politically driven, so it could be sooner. It just depends on who the president
is and all the infrastructure is set, and we feel the park is ready to go
toward a donation. Then you have to see what the timing is. Our idea is not to
hold onto it, but to make it into a national park.
WBB: By the infrastructure, you mean finishing the
buildings, campgrounds…?
KMT: Campgrounds, trails, everything you’d find in a
world-class national park.
WBB: Where are the campgrounds going to be, mostly along the
highway?
KMT: The principal ones, certainly, the biggest of them all
will be at the foot of this valley, and another at Casa Piedra as you go up
toward the [Argentine] border. We will have a few campsites up in Lago Chico
and other places, such as
Lago
Cochrane. They won’t be big fancy campgrounds, but there’ll be designated
places where people can camp.
WBB: Does this property extend south to Lago Cochrane?
KMT: We go all the way to the lake, and then all the way to
the border along the lake. The national reserve is contiguous.
WBB: How open to visitors is the park at the moment? Are
there enough campgrounds functioning at the moment?
KMT: That’s the thing, that’s why we need to get two
campgrounds going immediately because we’ve got visitors and, other than the
lodge (pictured above), we have a little campground back here where stragglers and volunteers
camp out, but that’s not a public campground per se. People can use it, but
it’s not what you want visitors to be using. So people are welcome, but usually
for the day, or they’re stuck in the working campground.
WBB: Will the facilities resemble those at Pumalín, in terms
of what they offer in the campgrounds and such?
KMT: Yes, you know, a group area for cooking, some
individual campsites, with little quinchos, and then a lot of places where
people put up their tents and use the public bathrooms and showers.
WBB: Cold showers?
KMT: Yes.
WBB: Before we get onto that, I want to bring up the issue
you mentioned of presidential power, whoever happens to be in power at the
time. How has the current president responded to initiatives like this?
KMT: As Chilean presidents go, I think
Sebastián
[Piñera] has got a real chance to be remembered as a president who is very
concerned about conservation. He has his own conservation project.
KMT: He’s also declared some areas as new protected areas.
Is it a lot, well, he’s only been in office a year, but he certainly understands
the necessity to have active protected areas, and that’s pretty rare.
WBB: Can he bring along the rest of his constituents, or his
party, on the issue? If not, can he bring along enough of them?
KMT: I have no idea, but I doubt it. Teddy Roosevelt didn’t
either. Chile has changed a lot since we started 20 years ago. We had a guest
here the other night, a friend of ours, from the business community of Chile,
and he has a significant place here on the other side of Lago Cochrane, and he
really sees that as a private conservation initiative.
Andrónico Luksic
has a place down in
Villa
O’Higgins that they consider to be a conservation project. Little by
little, things shift, just as they did in the United States.
WBB: Even now there remains a lot of opposition to expanding
protection of public lands in the United States. Just in terms of
infrastructure, I was surprised when I got in here yesterday to see the size of
the restaurant. Are you anticipating tour buses coming through?
KMT: Yes. In another 25 years, you have to imagine
Yellowstone when it was first designated a protected area, not a national park
yet, there was almost no way to get up there until they put the train in. You
have to imagine this park and other parks like it 25 or 50 years from now when
there will be a lot of people coming, up from
El
Calafate and over, when
Ruta
40 is paved.
KMT: I mean, it’s happening fast over there and here.
WBB: Would you expect an expansion of something like the
lodge here?
KMT: That’s not in the master plan, I can tell you that for
sure. But after a certain point, we won’t be the ones to decide that.
WBB: You are encouraging people who have an interest in
conservation, who have the means, to become donors.
KMT: We have an active fund-raising program for this
project. Little Conservación Patagonia cannot possibly create this 650,000-acre
park without partners. Impossible. It’s too big. CP started in the year 2000,
the first project we did was the
Monte
León National Park. Have you been there?
WBB: I have been to Monte León (pictured above) several times. Looking at it
from a distance, it seems it was simpler to accomplish that project on the
Argentine side, or at least quicker, than it was to do this in Chile, at
Pumalín. Would that fair to say?
KMT: They’re so different. Pumalín (pictured above) is almost 800,000 acres,
and Monte León was a one-purchase, 155,000-acre sheep estancia that was going
broke. It’s so difficult to compare the two. Monte León was fast because right
after we made the donation, [the late former Argentine president]
Néstor Kirchner
came into power and he’s from
Río
Gallegos, and in order to make it a real national park you have to cede
jurisdiction from [Santa Cruz] province to the federal government, and the
provinces hate the federal government. But Kirchner came into power just months
before the Río Gallegos legislature had to vote on that and he called up and
effectively said, “I don’t want to look like a schmoe, everybody get in line
and vote for this thing.”
WBB: So it was good timing.
KMT: So much in life is good timing. Monte León would have
languished as a national park, but without real jurisdiction if Kirchner hadn’t
happened to come into power then. He’d been governor forever of Santa Cruz and
was able to strong-arm them – ceding jurisdiction requires a 100 percent
legislative vote. Imagine trying to get that – that’s why it was so fast. We
did it in 18 months. Little CP can manage that kind of project, which we did
and we did it fast, but the scale and complexity of this project is different,
and so this is the only project we have where we have partners and we
absolutely couldn’t do it without them.
WBB: This is the first one where you’re using partners? How
many partners are there? All foreign partners, or Chilean partners as well?
KMT: It’s the only one. There are many partners. Ever since
we brought the property, I couldn’t have waltzed in here and spent enough money
to have bought the initial property, US$10 million. We could do a lot of that,
but we couldn’t do all of it.
The partners are mostly foreign, some European, one Chinese
man who’s a business partner and the rest from the States.
WBB: Do you still run into objections because the
participation is so overwhelmingly foreign?
KMT: We don’t get any objections to it, because this project
is 100 percent run by Chileans. This project pays Chilean taxes, people have
never cared nor would they analyze where all the funding has come from, they
know that CP is a US-based public charity. Where the funding comes from, we
don’t hide it, it’s no secret, but what people care about is who’s working
here, who helps make the decisions about what’s going to happen, just as they
wondered about with Pumalín and Corcovado, will we make national parks out of
it? Well, now we have a track record for doing so, so I don’t think people
worry about that. Certainly the government’s not worried about it.
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